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Post by Kakashi on May 24, 2006 22:47:51 GMT -5
Hiroshima, and....Kyoto? I nu remember the other, but anyway, it's said that America denied the surrender by the Japanese(For testing purposes of A-Bomb on real citys no doubt) And then after accepted the surrenders with the same conditions. Only rumours I've heard, but interesting.
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Post by distantmind on May 27, 2006 11:14:07 GMT -5
Nagasaki was the other city Tad. Now time to play my favorite game: "debunk the conspiracy"
The Japanese had been trying to get a conditional surrender for quite some time but refused the unconditional surrender demanded by the Allied forces. The Japanese had been trying to use tricky language to confuse the Allies about the meaning of the terms for surrender. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your feelings about Imperialism) a Japanese ambassador to the US told them what the tricky language meant. The Allies then refused the terms of surrender. The Russians had told the Japanese that they could get them a surrender on the terms of the final surrender but the Japanese cabinet almost unanimously decided to keep fighting the war.
My verdict: "conspiracy debunked"
Edit: spelling
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Post by Aimée on May 27, 2006 13:06:17 GMT -5
Opposed, dear Distant.
It's completely hypocritacal for the Allies to declare "tricky language" of the Japanese. Everyone knows that languages don't translate nicely. And--I'm not going to go into giant detail but--anyone remember FDR's quote "Speak softly, but carry big stick"? The US used that against--almost--every country. My History teacher described it as "at first the US persuaded nicely of other countries to do something; however, if they failed in their persuasion, then they used weapons to get what they wanted." (He used a yard/meter stick in his explanation).
US + nice persuasion = Failure
US + Weapons + Peruasion = Success
Japanese + Nice persuasion = Failure
Japanese + War = STILL failure!
They still fail, but yet, the Allies are still importing Japanese goods and--most likely--exporting to Japan. Something wrong with this?
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Post by Kakashi on May 27, 2006 18:02:10 GMT -5
My dad told me that it was Nagasaki afterwords, and I forgot to change it, sorry. Yeah, pretty muchly. I don't entirely understand what you two said, but from what I did get, Aimee has a point. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to keep fighting when the rumours and intel had been saying the US was making A bombs, I know you're Mr. History buff, but dude, come on.
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Post by distantmind on Jun 8, 2006 19:44:15 GMT -5
It was neither the US, allies or myself that claimed the Japanese were trying to use confusing language to get the Allies to agree to a conditional peace but the Japanese diplomat who was giving them the terms of their surrender. Secondly "speak softly and carry a big stick" not FDR but Theodor Roosevelt (FDR's great uncle I believe). Also the policy you outlined was a policy of TR not FDR. Sorry, but conspiracy still debunked.
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Post by Aimée on Jun 9, 2006 18:53:45 GMT -5
I'm sorry Distant. History isn't my strong point. It was one of the Roosevelts that said it--actually, I don't CARE who said it, my theory still stands.
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Post by Kakashi on Jun 9, 2006 22:23:47 GMT -5
It does matter, (and I have to 'gree with Matt here.) They were in different times, if TR said it not FDR then the war would not have/would have been going/had been over, they have used that phrase as their base unit of persuasion, from the time we had enough weapons to use that phrase, it just took a president mentioning that to inspire what your saying Aimee. (that probably didn't make sense, I'll clarify.) Always America has used Nice Persuasion, and if that didn't work they used weapons as a threat. As it is I'm going back and forth on both sides, so I'm going to end it here. BUT, to make a more interesting conversation, NOW THINK TO THE FIRST CONSPIRACY OF WORLD WAR 2, THE 6 BUISNESSMEN WHO STARTED IT. Their was a conspiracy that 6 buisnessmen started the war to increase the Japanese economy, because, as a book(name I forget) pointed out, when you lose a war/win a war/ against the Americans, you get money. The book was about this tiny country that sent 12 guys with bow and arrows to fight America so they could lose the war, etc, then find the ultimate weapon, so that kinda killed their idea.
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